tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8415011930907799790.post8658036901081012907..comments2019-09-07T11:41:29.305-07:00Comments on A New Parson's Handbook: Ordination and the Laying-on of Hands: College of Presbyters, or Moonie Wedding?Andrew McGowanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01304601214734931518noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8415011930907799790.post-2684052200467071002012-11-24T01:36:01.739-08:002012-11-24T01:36:01.739-08:00My first ordination was as a Churches of Christ mi...My first ordination was as a Churches of Christ minister in a ceremony led by the president of the denomination with the hands of a representative of the church laid on my head. Those chose to lay hands were both lay and ordained and in my own case was coincidentally a former minister of the church I was to go to as my first placement. While this is definitely a reflection of the non-conformist traditions of Churches of Christ it has a ring of catholicity.<br /><br />I appreciate Percy's sensitivity to these things so much that I suspect he would squirm, as I do, when in company of some non-episcopally inclined, any present who are especially related to or interested in the candidate should join in the laying on of hands. I am afraid I really like the "representativeness" of the function described by Percy. ThanksDjittydjittyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15756658696715642829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8415011930907799790.post-66403115723294499042011-11-28T02:53:31.001-08:002011-11-28T02:53:31.001-08:00I agree totally with this concern. At the ordinati...I agree totally with this concern. At the ordination yesterday I felt that we were enacting a very poor ecclesiology in the custom that has developed that only the friends and supporters of a person lay hands with the bishops. I have the same issue with the family and friends standing while 'their' person is ordained and then coming to receive communion with them. These sentimental practices developed under the previous archbishop and were not Melbourne customs before then. Anglican ecclesiology walks a fine line between a priest being set apart for the Church and also being able to commit to a marriage. One is not more important than the other which the new 'customs' suggest. <br />I simply did not have the courage to lay hands on everyone yesterday but my catholic heart was wanting to. Next year I will follow my heart - and practice the ecclesiology I believe in.colleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05309414993712336090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8415011930907799790.post-17056793891484018272011-11-27T18:01:41.151-08:002011-11-27T18:01:41.151-08:00I am grateful to Percy for this explanation and fo...I am grateful to Percy for this explanation and for the inclusiveness he displayed at the ordination in question. As a candidate for ordination to the priesthood in the Diocese in question, and attending an ordination for the first time, I was extremely disappointed to find the selective practice Percy describes. Should I, God and Church willing, be ordained priest some day I hope that all present would be helped to see this as an ordination by the whole Church for the whole Church.Nick Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03533683208703426647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8415011930907799790.post-51882626716342029832011-11-26T23:56:41.055-08:002011-11-26T23:56:41.055-08:00Absolutely agree - and the issue goes back not jus...Absolutely agree - and the issue goes back not just to tradition or Ordinals, but scripture: 1 Timothy 4:14. A lot of the problem is due to the medieval individualising of 'priesthood', and thinking of each priest as being separately empowered to preach and preside. Rather, such personal ministry is characteristic of the bishop. In the early churches, the 'presbyterate' was indeed corporate, with little specific liturgical function - often 'elders' literally. Under pressure in the third century, bishops began to delegate presiding to them, and under the influence of Graeco-Roman ideas of priesthood this was soon understood in sacrificial terms of less than biblical warrant (in the OT only the high priest performs any sort of atoning rite - priests 'give Torah', ie engage in pastoral preaching, hence Cranmer's model in BCP). <br /><br />So BCP's rubric is quite correct, and derives from Cranmer's scriptural and patristic re-reception of holy order - a deacon (and there's a topic for another day) is admitted to the college of presbyters, not just a selcet group among them ...Charles Sherlockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18396366750190586271noreply@blogger.com